Email.

Hello...

I am writing in response to your site, if you wish to call it that. I'm 13, and I can still have a say in things and while everyone has an opinion, and you are clearly demonstrating your power to say what you want, I also have that right, so, here my rant goes, okay?

Why must you label people? I mean seriously, if people want to label themselves, that's their fucking business, not yours; I mean, if they seriously want to go around calling themselves "goths" who gives a shit? I mean, I dress in all black, wear band shirts relating to satanism, dark mysticism, and other strange, grotesque, and unusual things, and I listen to black and death metal like Dimmu Borgir and Cradle of Filth, yet I do not label myself "goth", although I have many friends that do. I leave them alone, it's entirely their business if they wish to put themselves in a genre of stereotyping, mis-conceptions, and generalizations that people like you promote through sites like these.

Maybe you should start judging yourself before you judge others, I mean, seriously man; Look at yourself. Here you are, sitting at your computer making a site that just puts people down. Obviously, you don't have anything better to do than label, make fun, and all that other shit that comes along with your site, eh? Maybe you should go out and find some friends, bud, mabye that would help.

Next, your whole rant about Marilyn Manson; I personally like him, and I see no reason why you must insult anyone elses musical tastes, either. Follow this quote, "to each his own", there is no use in you talking about how he sucks, but many people, including myself, happen to like him, so keep your negative opinions to yourself, okay?

I do not claim to be "non-conformist", nor do I claim to "rebel". I like who I am, what I listen to, and what I look like; Although I usually keep my opinions to myself, I sometimes feel the fucking urge to express myself to people like you, people who show their ignorance and are just as much as a "hypocrite" or "conformist" as the people you judge.

Judge yourself before you judge others

-Andrew James Chen

P.S. I would really appreciate if you put this on your site. I am 13 years old, yet I can still find and formulate opinions on things, and I would like to see your response to this email.

Thank you for taking your dear precious time to read this

-Andrew

My Response:

So you are a 13 year old who can type. Good on you son.

1) You call the site purely ignorant but you never really back it up . Why is it ignorant?

2) Like I say on the site. The site is about people who call themselves 'goth'. They perpetuate the stereotype i only enforce it. By alligning themselves with a mainstream stereotype they fall into the conventions (and criticisms) of that stereotype. If you had read the site thouroughly you would realise that i only call them 'goth' because they do so themselves. Also Cradle Of Filth haven't made any good music since 'Midian'.

3)"Maybe you should start judging yourself before you judge others, I mean, seriously man; Look at yourself. Here you are, sitting at your computer making a site that just puts people down. Obviously, you don't have anything better to do than label, make fun, and all that other shit that comes along with your site, eh? Maybe you should go out and find some friends, bud, mabye that would help." Where were you when you typed this email? Outside running around with your friends? I think not. Solve your own hypocrisy's before you look at mine.

4)Ever heard of freedom of opinion? Y'know Marilyn Manson stands for Free speech yet by saying I shouldn't insult him or his fans you are trying to nulify my rights. Yet again you give no reason as to why "I see no reason why you must insult anyone elses musical tastes". Why shouldn't i do this? Give me a good reason and then perhaps I won't.

5) Hmmmm. We all conform petal. It's life. Do you have a house? Use your computer? Use money? Pay Tax? Watch TV? Because these are things that all humans do.You only think you are different because of your musical tastes. you are not. We are all the same. Time to realise this.

6) Finally I put up the emails...etc not too long ago so if i decide to put this up then it will be a few months away at least.

thanks.

Email

Interesting Points on Manson , Although i love him and Believe him to be the 4th Anti-Christ ( I am going to be the 5th) I found your site Really provocative and it is refreshing to hear a different point of view !

My Response:

The 5^th Antichrist???? God. Not that I believe you are anything other than a deranged lunatic but who were the first 3 antichrists? Answers on a postcard…..

Email

dude, u sound like a total christian and all saying we're all one big stereotype maybe you, christian boy, should wake up to the fact that you're seeing us from the outside, you havent experienced gothic nature first hand you go by discrimination you little prick, by the way ar'nt christians spose to love everyone no matter what culture they are? maybe you should open you little fucking eyes to the fact that you have more people dissin you'r web site then going with it, and most of ur responses contradict what you say on your site. grow some balls. mutha fucker

My Response:

"you go by discrimination you little prick," = "u sound like a total christian"....sound familiar. Incidently i am not a christian and have experienced 'Gothic Nature' (as you call it) first hand because my best friend is a goth.

So you are saying i should go with the crowd and like or dislike what they like? Is that what you do? So because people dont agree with me i am wrong? am i not entitled to my own opinions or points of view? or any basic human right? simply because i say things you do not agree with?

Email

Ok, I'm going to level with you. I am what society considers a 'goth'. I dress in black, wear £150 boots and leather. I dress the way I do because like many others that dress the same as me, I feel I'm rejected from other 'groups...('townies' etc). I also happen to love the clothes assoisated with the (refered to hereafter as the) gothic subculture. I feel by wearing gothic clothes, I fit in with a string of others like me. Yes, some people saying theyre goths do wear almost identical outfits to theyr friends and say they are individual. I have no time for these people. Everyone has a different reason for dressing like a goth. Some truley believe they look individual, and thats ok, thats their problem, you don't need to slander them for it. And as for the self harm paragraph, I am yet to see any goth showing off any scars they may have. And if they do maybe thats their decision, maybe that's their way of dealing with it. And Manson, personally I hate marilyn manson, his music is amazing, he is an attention seeker. He takes things way to far, to appear 'scary'. The people you describe in why goths suck, do exist, and they are why we get steryotyped so much. But not everyone is like that, and you have to understand that. You must lead a very sad life if you have nothing better to do than make up a site because you don't like a certain subculture. And i know you'll say i musnt have much of a life if im repling to you. And yes...your probably right, i have nothing better to do with my time. So go ahead, hit me with your best sarcastic come back. Clare

My Response:

"And as for the self harm paragraph, I am yet to see any goth showing off any scars they may have" - Well i have never been to Brazil but i still believe it is there.

Also i never said ALL goths are like that if you had looked carefully i said "Not all goths are like this though" but you would much rather critisice someone who dislikes the hypocrissy in your subculture. ( Y'know im sure i wrote an essay about this....now where did i leave it???)

Perhaps you should try and take a neutral standing before judging any youth culture that is what i have done and i get vilified for it. But then again i expected that.

Email

What gives you the right to make a website like that? marilyn manson has gone through a shit load just to make some motherfucking music. And as if we dont get enough fucking shit off you townies, when we walk down the street we get beat up and shouted abuse and you just rub it in a bit more and make a FUCKING WEBSITE. Did you honestly go through all his lyrics just to do that page? We don't go round scaring old ladies, who mugged an old man for 2 quid about a year ago? it was a townie, who scares old ladies by going round in big massive gangs outside of shops and shout nasty stuff at people? townies. and yeh, NSYNC and all that shit do it for just money too, so why can't i see a fucking webpage about that? I dont make webpages saying about RNB and all that hip hop shit, even though ive been beat up by people like you a lot of fucking times for being who I WANT to fucking be. You think too fucker much. what have we honestly done to you? cos u know what you've done to me? you've killed 2 of my best friends and then have the right to say we are complete weirdo's. you completely don't understand so i think you should keep your scruffy fucking townie fuck off shitty arse out of it. Go and have a nice life being a fucking sheep copyin off people and makin webpages to impress your friends cos you think its funny.

My Response:

Freedom of Speech that gives me the right to make a website. Incidently im not a townie the musical tastes i have are Converge , Norma Jean , Dillenger Escape Plan , Beecher ,Johnny Truant & Radiohead.

There most probably are plenty of anti-N*Sync websites (For a good reason too) but you just didnt bother too look. I never said you were a "Complete Weirdo". Now ironically you call me a sheep. This proves that you didnt bother to read the site. Because most true goths (Not Mansonites) actually agree with the site. Most of the positive mail i have recieved has been from goths. Not townies. (I dont especially like them either).

The site discusses how goths conform to an ideal then proclaim their individuality.

Email

really, first thing most people learn when they get out of school to go to college/uni whatever, is to research something before they write about it. you have clearly done to research about any of this. you have just taken a bunch of sterotypes that are asociated with SpoOKY KIDS and tarred everyone who is gothic with the same brush!
yes it is true, some goths are pretentious and elitist, some goths do dress just like everyone else while claiming to be unique, but not everyone, and most of those people who do that are not real goths. really you aren't part of this culture, you are looking at it from the outside, you haven't done any research, you aren't any sort of expert so why on earth do you think that you are right?
because you aren't

killkath

ha... ugly people like you make ugly sites like this.. and melissa... you're...how do i put it in a nice way... ignorant.. pure utterly ignorant

Aleister

what´s all that smiley **** about?

Hey dude your statements in "Why Goths suck" rule! But what´s all this Marylin Manson **** about? Don´t you understand his sarcasm? He just laughs all those people taking that goth stuff to serious straight into the face while taking their money. In his private life we wears blue jeans and t-shirts. Just when he has a gig or a video shoot he dresses up like brandon lee´s dead grandpa. And isn´t taking money from all those goths a great reason to party?
By the way, if there is one really really evil person, it´s the one on the website I posted the link to!!!! Greetings from Germany, the country with the biggest goth scene on the globe!

Kevin J. Seifert

You really are a sad pathetic individual, why would you make such a site promoting hate against a certain section of society? Are you jealous of them or something? I'll bet you shop at Old Navy don't you? Well don't **** your khakis when you hear this but get a life you ignorant prep ***** and take down all your Justin Timberlake and 50 Cent posters.

Nick the Great

Yeah dude, your website sucks major dick. You really go directly for stereotypes don't you? I am what people consider "goth" and really its only my style. I do listen to some rock, but I mostly listen to rap. And last I checked, I only like a couple songs of marilyn Manson. And I dont think any of my friends are *******es. And do you really have that little of a life that you need to attack people that dress differently? your just a ****** and need to go back on the football field and stick a ***** up your ass

me!

hi,
firstly i appreciate that if i dont like what your saying i shouldn't read it but hey, i have now so...but anyway i would just like to say that i my self have been classed/labeled a goth , although i donot like to class myself! and wat you were saying about induviduality has nothing to do with the dress sense its to do with the person, and i know you can get some ppl who think to dress in all black you must also be miserable but that is not true and i think you will find it is YOU that is the hyprcrt, you cant just say you h8 a group of ppl coz i could easily say "Oh i hate any one who likes cheese, they suck"...but i wouldnt because thats just stupid [ and i like cheese] i feel your statement about goths is of a similar nature!!!!!!!!!!

Email

now i understand how u can blame manson for his actions of such digrace and in-human thoughts but u have to realize not everybody has your beleifs and expectations, i listen to manson's music but resent being called a manson fan, just like thousands and thousands of others, u cant just read a boigraphy of the man behind the mask, u have to read all the biographies ever written by and for Brian Warner. need i remind you "freedom of speech" which manson beleives in so diredly that he expresses him self in the oddest of ways.Now i know it's easy to throw mansons face on the television because in the end he represents a poster boy for fear because he does and says what he wants and in a country like America he doesnt fit in but to others he is praised and adored, as im sure you already know.face the fact that he has money and is not going anywhere until the drugs kill him or he retires! i've read stuff on the real Brian Warner that can allow you to except the reasons f or the way he is, though not entirely but partly. I hope you take this into consideration and remind yourself God loves him too, as he does me and you. Take care and thank u for your time, god bless us all

gustavo azua

Email

Marilyn Manson is not a Goth, he is allot of things parents hate put together and turned up,

I am a Goth and I have to say, I am annoyed by the same kind of things about Goths as you are,

As I see it their are two types of ‘Goths’:

The rebelling against parents, I hate the would ‘goths’

And people like me, will high level GCSE, A levels, a Degree and a Diploma (in Archaeology)

The people which are the way Goths where.I have no need to waste my time saying anymore

Email

Dear sir/ma'am,

I found your observations on the filth of the media marilyn manson to

be

quite insightful. He has created thousands of Goth-Zombiefied teens

through out

the country who in 90% are cruel people. I asume you're a christian,

(i am

jewish), so i think your views on manson are certainly

understandable. Best of luck

in the crusade against idiot goths.

Willis565

Email

Hello, I'm in an odd mood at the moment. I entered in "goths suck" out of sheer curiosity and your site came up. I'm a goth, and sometimes I just like seeing the opinions of other people on our subculture.

Before you stop reading, let me just tell you -- this isn't a hate mail. I can actually relate to a lot of the things that you said, particularly on your "why goths suck" page. The pros I agreed with, there are some very attractive goths out there. Some may consider goths ugly, but that may be because a goths aesthetics are different from what some may consider normal. And yes, some goths are in fact very intelligent. Many are above the average level of intelligence. I consider myself to be above average but my spelling and coherency in this email may prove otherwise. ((It's a 1am thing))

Now.. the cons list.

Hypocrital - Most definately. I'm even guilty of this one. The whole "goth is about dressing to express yourself" Well, I believe that, but when I see some kid who goes goth overnight, to come to school looking like they just robbed the nearest Hot Topic.. well, I have my doubts on how "original" they really are. I can't STAND Hot Topic. It's mainstream, overpriced, poor-quality crap that you can either find somewhere online or make for less money. Many goths make their own clothes, which is very interesting because when you look at someone in clothes they made themselves it gives you an idea of their true self _expression. There is indeed an over abundancy of the kids who listen to the latest AFI or Good Charlotte CD and think "WOAH HOW GOTH!" and then go to Hot Topic and buy a whole new wardrobe. And yes, they all tend to have the same style, all dressing in black, trying to "out-goth" each other. I'm thinking that you're experience with goths is with the "Mansonit es" as they're called in some places. Manson's cronies. I read through your page on Manson, and I can totally identify with how you associate his fans conforming to the very thing they go against. It's kind of like the punk kids who buy anarchy wristcuffs and fingercuffs and whatever else is at Hot Topic, when the emblem you're buying stands for anarchy -- and they don't get it, because when they buy that item, they're actually supporting the economy they're against by using its money. But yes -- it gets so boring to see the same style on the entire group of goth kids. They might not realize it, but the goths do incorporate colors into their style. That's the kind of thing that catches your attention -- colors and accessories put together so that it looks neat, not some ready made outfit bought from a store.

You're idiot goth paragraph.. you have NO IDEA how much I can relate to this. I myself am a self-injurer.. and it really pisses me off when people cut themselves and then show it off like their scars are some sort of fucking trophy. And yes, it does make a mockery of the kids with actual problems. I did the same thing you did -- I felt guilty about what I had done and then I would cover up my scars, and would avoid at all costs having someone see them. And yes, I was ashamed and felt guilty about what I had done. I didn't want people seeing it, and I sure as hell didn't want to draw any attention to myself for my scars.

Gothic elitism.. hmm. Yes, I can relate to this as well. Many goths have that snotty, condescending attitude like they're somehow superior to the population and to the goths that they consider posers. They purposely set themselves apart from other people with different views. I do this, but it is mostly as an act of self-protection -- I get harassed for no other reason than my choice of dress and music. I know that there are intelligent people out there, in many different labels, but there are the types of girls who just look down their noses at me without knowing me and can say "gothic scumbag/bitch" without thinking twice to even say three words to me before passing judgement. I think that those are a type of people with elitism issues as well. But yeah -- I'm as sick as the next person with the goths who think they're better than everyone else because they're somehow "enlightened" to something the rest of the general population isnt. -.-

When I first started dressing goth, I was pretty young, and didn't really know that people would harass me for my style. It seemed as ridiculous to me as say, harassing someone for wearing Abercrombie or Aeropostale. But it did happen, and "filthy goth" is the equivalent to "gothic scumbag" when I do in fact shower every morning before I go to school, but I still get those types of comments. I think that there are some people who dress goth on purpose just to start stuff but there are others who don't.

And the last paragraph -- about having a hard life -- I get what you're saying. I'm not one of the types of goths though, who can go out and spend $60.00 on a pair of bondage pants. In fact, my parents are split and money is extrememly tight, and it seems just plain stupid to me to go out and spend sixty dollars on a pair of pants. The majority of my clothes come from the Salavation Army, and sure, call me a scumbag if you want, but it's what I choose. I don't think that it's absolutley necessary that I shop there but it's what I want. If I want something more gothic then I work my ass off to earn the money and pay for it myself. That's why Ebay and smaller online stores are my best friends :) Also, I'm full aware that there are many, many people who suffer from all types of abuse. I'm currently getting professional help, for depression and SI and I also struggle with an eating disorder on top of that, as well as tons of sexual harassment. Sometimes I think that one of the main reasons I started dressing gothic was to keep people away from me.

Wow. That turned out longer than I thought it would. I'm always able to type out huge lengthy replies to subjects I feel strongly about. If you made it this far -- congratulations. I hope that I was able to give you an intelligent insight into a view of a goth. Hopefully I didn't sound too "pity me" at the end there. And, hopefully, you won't think "meh it's just another goth" and think nothing of this email, because I really did put a lot into it. I seem to like trying to show people different views, and hopefully you'll understand mine as well as I understood yours. If you could write a reply on what you thought of this email, I'd be very grateful. And, once again, excuse the typos, it's late ((early)) and I really should be going to sleep.

--Liz

Email

you ass Goths are a lot cooler than you.fucken posack

Email

Well to start off, you sure do know a lot about his songs for someone who hates him. Marilyn Manson does like his fans it's not for just the money. And yes you are correct, he is a lyrical genius. And if you have nothing against him then why would you make that artical? If you are a christian then I hope you know, your not acting to christian wise. And believe me when I say this I had to put up with two christians and a wigger my whole life so sadly I know this....it's a sin to hate. That's it. And remember these magical words..... "I'm not a slave to a god that dosen't exist and I'm not a slave to a world that dosen't give a shit." -Fight Song So here is a fair warning from Marilyn Manson and his fans. If you don't back off of him then we'll all hunt you down.

Email

you are a knob head y you dising marilyn manson he is probably way better that you you fuch head

Email

hilarious essays. i enjoyed them much.

i wondered how much hatemail you recieve, and if you have plans of posting them to point out more stereotyping.

*shrugs* haha.

Email

Now, I agree with you that there are a lot of people who follow Manson religeously. And I agree that those people are quite weak-minded for that. But those people make the decision to be that way. Manson doesn't ask them to engrave his name on their chests, they just do. And I noticed many things in your page that just... they just seem wrong, and kind of retarded. Like one thing; you keep saying that you don't have anything against Manson. So why do you title the page "Marilyn Manson Sucks"? And those quotes. Did you just pull those out of your ass at random? Those are just pieces of bigger quotes that make no sense unless said in context. You really don't have anything bad to say about him other than those things which are completely irrelevant when you sit down and actually use your brain for once.

I'm not defending Manson, I'm just saying that you should think things through before you start to rag on someone. Especially if you're just pissed at him because he puts down Christians. That makes you no better than those goths who get pissed when someone makes fun of Manson. So write back if you want. I honestly don't care.

P.S. In your pictures section, where you said "That man really needs a new Dentist!", that was prettly lame and even more when you realize that that's one of the best things you have against him.

Email REPLY

You have a point there, a very good point. It did drive me to email you. But I wasn't exactly pissed, I was just wondering about some of those things, that's all.

Guestbook

Lee

Surfer says not all goths are bad, but some are ****es. True, metallers are ok, Goths arent all bad but he or she is labelling and that is ignorant, what ******* townies do (no offence) Labellers are little ****s and those ho do it unintentionally can be forgiven though.

Townies, Junkies and Gypsys are the ******* ***** to deal with ppl...

Guestbook

emma

can i ask how long did it take to make your site to mkae? Also you talk aobut how they come out with stupid wisdom well wot about you preaching to others about descrimanation. Yeh so wot if they are "gloomy an think life sux" its not your problem. You talk as if your hitlar and goth are the jews well who are you callinga race? A nobody that who? Why are you also adressing it to "gothS" anyway i thought it was a antigoth site when its only realy it the people you hate
that go on and laugh at you. You say they cry out for attaintsion** isnt that acsactly what your doing. WHAT DO YOU LIKE HATE MAIL

Guestbook

sarah aka lilgoth

what right do you have 2 class all goths together and say they "suck".i am a goth and proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i dont try and force my beliefs on anybody and im not obsessed by death.i dont mind you having your opinion but u have 2 realise that goths are individuals and are not the same.u cant say ALL goths suck,cos they don't OK.i am an individual and wish 2 be treated as such.bye!!

Guestbook

Anarchandy

Hehe,
I came to this site expecting another badly spelled rant. I'm actually tres impressed.
I'm vaguely involved in the 'Goth' scene- but in more of a traditional 80s/postpunk way- and I get sick of exactly the same things. Most of your comments seem to hit bang on the mark, particularly your critique of Mssr. Manson (all hail the king of faux goth and crappy shock rock, etc). Frankly, like any genre and subculture, Goth seems to have evolved into something self absorbed, pretentious, and ultimately twattish, and many of the people involved in the scene from its conception are just as annoyed as everyone else.
Anyway, thank you for the laugh, and for being relatively balanced in comparison to those who seem to be criticising you. Ciao.